Language lessons

It's almost creepily warm in Paris for the second half of November. You don't even really need a coat. The réchauffement planétaire, or effet serre [greenhouse effect] is on its way.

Paris, unlike London or New York or Shanghai, is safe from global flooding, anyway. It's a couple of hundred feet above sea level, and the surrounding area is higher. That's why the weathermen always talk about the bassin Parisien, the Parisian basin. Where pollution tends to sink and stay during those long August canicules [heat waves].

While I was in the cab, my cell phone rang and I had a brief conversation in English. When I hung up, the driver said, "Vous êtes anglaise?"

"Non, américaine."

"Well, then, I will give you a compliment. I was married to an Englishwoman for seven years, and I thought you were English. You have a very good English accent. I understood everything very clearly."

This put me in such a bad mood-- it bothers me on so many levels. And yet he meant it as a compliment. I tried to be nice. "To say the least," I said, "Americans who put on an English accent are mal vus."

"I suppose it's like us with an accent of Versailles," he said. "If someone makes an effort to speak very correctly, people say they are showing off."

"Very correctly"-- this put me hors de moi. So an American needs an English accent to speak English correctly? What, exactly, is incorrect about my English?

The driver saw which way the wind was blowing and backtracked. "I like Americans, they are nice people, really I just thought you were English, I have nothing against Americans, but sometimes I don't understand them..."

He had thought he was safely in the realm of flattery.

I am a bit of a language snob, I admit (my father was an English professor). There are phrases that grate on my nerves, like "between you and I" or "for my husband and I" or "her and me went out." It sounds wrong to me to "lay out in the sun" and I could never spell "all right" as "alright." I respect the old irregular verbs and was cross when Hollywood shrank the kids but said it "shrunk" them.

But it's the nature of living languages to change. Our current accepted language is just a collection of earlier "mistakes" of the same kind, and the Queen's English might have been Lallands and not southern-England English if politics had turned out a little differently. The Académie Française, which is compiling the world's slowest dictionary, has a Sisyphean task. But most French still firmly believe there is only one correct form of each language: the royal one. (By the way, supporters of Ségolène Royal, who just won the Socialist nomination as presidential candidate for 2007, are called Royalistes.)

Comments

[Flip]

Hello,

I am a french reader and I don't really understand why you were angry to have been told about your accent that was sounding english. Why an american with an english accent should be mal vu ?

By the way, is there really an english accent ? I have visited UK and it seems that like in other countries, the accent can change a lot with the location.

I would like too to express that like you and without being a language fanatic, there are some words or sentences that hurt my hears in french. for example, people who says 'au jour d'aujourd'hui', wich sounds meaningless to me or when talking about internet says 'l'internet' (about this last point, I have asked several french teachers and it seem to be correct to personalise internet with a "l'".

I sometimes feel some people snob when they use some old vocabulary, but at the end, mastering a language is such an hard and important thing that I couldn't not admire them for this king of knowledge, even if it looks old-fashionned.

Salut !

Flip.

From Sedulia:

Dear Flip,

Just imagine that a Quebecois complimented you for not sounding French and maybe you will understand how I feel about that "compliment."

I don't understand what you mean about "l'internet"-- isn't that the right way to say it? Could you explain?

Yes, we language lovers should stick together.

[Jessica]

I remember my British Writers professor saying today's American accent is closer to 18th century British English than todays British accent. I've heard that said of the Quebecois as well, but I've never really looked into it.

[L'Amerloque]

Hi Sedulia !

/*/It's almost creepily warm in Paris for the second half of November./*/

Actually the French have a locution for this kind of November weather. It's called l'Ete de Saint-Martin ...

A la mort de Martin, le 8 novembre 397, les moines de Marmoutier et de Ligugé se disputant son corps comme relique, les Tourangeaux profitèrent de la nuit pour l'enlever et l'emmener à Tours. On dit qu'un miracle survint alors ( on n'est plus à un miracle près !) : sur le parcours de la barque qui emportait les restes du saint, les arbres se mirent à reverdir, les plantes à refleurir, les oiseaux à chanter... Ce fut ce qu'on a appelé depuis "l'été de la Saint Martin". Après la mort de saint Martin, Tours est devenue l'un des grands centres de pèlerinage européen. La chape de saint Martin constituait la plus précieuse relique sur le sol de la France et les rois mérovingiens et carolingiens en firent un symbole de leur dynastie. http://tinyurl.com/2q8kp

(grin) As Jean Ferrat sang:

C'étaient mémorables festins
C'étaient délectables nuits blanches
Je priais que mon cœur ne flanche
A l'été de la Saint-Martin

Best,
L'Amerloque

[Gem]

I know EXACTLY how you feel. Working as an English teacher last year in Nice, I received many "compliments" for speaking clear English (as an American). Many of my students asked me if I spoke English or American; they told me they didn't like the way Americans speak because they "mangent leurs mots." What made me go off, though, was my French mother-in-law. Before they came to the US, I joked with them that they should learn English so they could talk to the customs officials. "Oh no!" she said, "I can hardly understand English--and in America, it must be 10 times harder!" Yes, I'm certain that in London she would understand the customs officials very easily...

[Remy]

I personally have a hard time understanding people from some southern states, but It's even harder for me to understand English (from England). I have never heard any of my friends complaining about the way Americans speak English. I learnt English from an English professor but I still prefer the way Americans speak (is it "learned" or "learnt"? my wife, who's American, keeps telling me that it's "learned").

I've been living in the U.S. for over 5 years now, so I might be a little biased, but I don't see how French people could claim that English is easier to understand than American.

[Pardon_My_French]

Heh -- I enjoyed this post very much and identify with your feelings. I had a class last year who insisted that I must have a British accent since they "could understand me." They were convinced they couldn't understand Americans so therefore I must have an English accent. I told them that no, I definitely had an American accent and it was much closer to Dolly Parton than the Queen, so I was living proof that they could understand Americans. On the other hand, I have a good friend who can understand me without problem but cannot follow a British accent...it's just what one gets used to. There are so many other factors that affect communication besides accent, but people do tend to get hung up on that one. Perhaps it's just an easy way to save face.

[Mr Frogsmoke]

It can get worse. My wife is Oxford-English, and has a degree in Teaching English to Foreigners (TEFL). When she applied for a teaching job in France (where we live) she was rejected because of her 'strange accent', meaning that she didn't speak English the way French speak English...

[Flip]

Hi Sedulia,

Thank you for the little example wich has helped me to understand your feeling.
As I have some admiration for people from Quebec and they way to speak too, I wouldn't be offended to sound like them. However, as I am native from the south of France, I wouldn't like to be told that I speak like a Parisian. However, I don't think that I would be very offended by this since after all, we speak the same language.

About l'internet, there is two way to say it :
L'Internet ( the Internet)
and
Internet ( Internet).

Even if it seem that both are correct, I always have been a little shocked by the fact to say "the Internet".
Since it seem that Internet seem to be important enough to be printed with a capital "I", I don't understand why we should say "The" before.

It's like if someone was talking of you saying "The Sedulia".

However, I will understand to write "the interconnected network".

Well..I might be a kind of maniac :)))) this is not really important.

Still about the english accent, I would like to add that for most of frenchs, and even students that learn english since some years at school, english remain a kind of crypting language (no more than the other language!).
Maybe, that in the mind of the people that didn't travel much, if Uk is far, it's not that much. But imagine America !! They doesn't even know how to locate it on a map but they know that it's far, so I guess that they believe that the more it's far, the more it's difficult. It just may be une "idée préconcue"

The only english accent that I have found to be easier to listen is the one that I see when watching tv sitcoms. With no major difference between British and American ones. I guess that the reason is that people that make the voices for that kind of movies usually have a clean tone voice and maybe computer helps to modify it.

Flip

[ckenb]

Why is "l'Internet" any different from "la radio" or "la télévision" ? Or "la France" ?

[Nicole]

I often get the comment on my "English accent" even though I am American and do get a bit irritated about that. I lived in Scotland for quite a few years though and so I put it down to the rhythm of my speech. And when they say that British english is easier to understand than American, I refuse to back down- I insist that it is only because their teachers were British.

[Joe]

I've been living in France for almost a year now and when I speak English they're not sure where I'm from. They know it isn't England and they aren't sure about the US. When I say I'm from the US, Miami to be specific, they say I don't talk like an American. I inform them the US is almost 10 million sq kms (or roughly 17 times the size of France) and we all sound different. Just like someone from Nice sticks out in Paris.

As for the movies, most actors/actresses go through voice coaching at some stage to minimize accents. A heavy Long Island accent doesn't work well in West Virgina.

[Sara]

"I am a bit of a language snob, I admit (my father was an English professor). There are phrases that grate on my nerves, like "between you and I" or "for my husband and I" or "her and me went out." It sounds wrong to me to "lay out in the sun" and I could never spell "all right" as "alright."

Speaking of language snobbery, I am annoyed on a daily basis when I hear on the news that "two/three/five US troops were killed in Iraq" when I'm almost certain the newscaster means to say that two/three/five US soldiers were killed. Because a troop is a group, not one soldier. I'm sure they wouldn't say "two US platoons were killed in Iraq today" so why do they say "two US troops"?

From Sedulia: I guess everyone has pet peeves. Yours seems pretty reasonable. My father's was "the reason is because" (you are supposed to say "that"). One of my aunts hates it when the waitress says "Are you done?" and thinks it should be "Are you finished?" and my mother is an inconditionelle of "as" or "as if" instead of "like" --as in "like I care."

Hello Ckenb,

About this story of l'internet, I think that it's just that the sound of l'internet sounds bad to my ears and maybe too because I see Internet as a kind of living entity.

For example if you have a dog called Poochie, you don't say "le Poochie".

Regards,

[Alison]

Ah, you and I are a lot alike. Great post.

[Neil @ In Actual Fact]

Thanks for the Queen's Hinglish book tip - very interesting, you should get commission from amazon.

By the by; When living in Germany - next to a huge US military base - practically no German was able to pick up that I was British, not American - whetherI spoke English or my (obviously accented) German.

"I'd like a cup of Earl Grey tea and some beans on toast with dodgy teeth and a bit of class envy please, cor blimey guvnor, Mary Poppins!" I'd say, for no good reason, in the local Bäckerei - rather than just asking for a loaf of bread...
"Oh you crazee Amerikaner, ve zink you are just playing to stereotyping" they would reply (I didn't say it was an iteresting story).

[Sedulia]

I've had French people who didn't speak English at all tell me they didn't want their children to get an American accent. One even forbade her child to make friends with mine for fear of the child's non-existent English being contaminated!

Yet rare indeed is a French person who speaks English with anything but a charming French accent.

[Flip]

Hi,

I think that I talk this english with that french accent, but I'm not very proud of it.
When I listen french people talking in english with the french accent, I feel like I don't want to be heared with that ridiculous voice..

So you find it charming ? :D cool !